tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post1692231055075270224..comments2023-10-20T08:49:32.258-07:00Comments on Wort 'n' all: The ignorance and arrogance of the ludditesChris Mairhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10701893504142498285noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-25359748390851699892012-09-26T06:57:25.988-07:002012-09-26T06:57:25.988-07:00Totally agree with the author
(I don't like be...Totally agree with the author<br />(I don't like being told what is or is not 'Real Ale'...its just beer at the end of the day (real or unreal)...I'll drink what I like (& yes on a hot day give me a Carling).....argue all you want but CAMRA is perceived as a stuffy know it all bunch of 'older' individuals drinking flat beer (wrong I know, but perception is reality)...it is not not seen as modern or new...<br />CAMRA is a very good lobby group for beer drinkers (ie: consumers)....it's not there primarily for craft/micro brewersHugh Jorgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05134618725983456699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-75352389427854723022012-02-22T10:24:49.208-08:002012-02-22T10:24:49.208-08:00Arguing on the internet is like taking part in the...Arguing on the internet is like taking part in the Special Olympics, you may win but you're still "special". <br /><br />If you disagree with what Chris has to say should probably read the introduction to the blog, above the post.Matthew Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18297729524248829539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-10221022998164620952012-02-13T07:03:56.613-08:002012-02-13T07:03:56.613-08:00It's true that CAMRA as an organisation is doi...It's true that CAMRA as an organisation is doing nothing to actively promote unfined beer. We also do nothing to actively promote wheat beers, or barley-wines, or barrel ageing, or dry hopping with kangaroo ballsacks*. All of which can be a good thing.<br /><br />To the best of my knowledge CAMRA also has no policies against any of the above - including unfined beer (or ballsacks).<br /><br />If you want to change things - cause CAMRA to actively campaign for something - <br />you have to join up and campaign for it internally and propose a motion for the AGM when you think there is enough support. You'd have my support (not worth much I'm afraid) and other members would get behind it too, I'm sure. Alas, it is likely that motions supporting a small niche are unlikely to pass, but you never know! ("Make May A Mild Month"?) Bring in the vegetarian/vegan edge and some traction may be found. So long as the bulk of active CAMRA members who have time to go to AGMs is made up of old retired folk the direction of the organisation will reflect the views of that demographic. Perhaps this means CAMRA will die out as this particular demographic dies out... but I don't think this is going to happen in a hurry. Better to try and get inside and influence the direction of the organisation.<br /><br />CAMRA also doesn't want to "stamp out" anything, as far as I know. In my branch at least we welcome innovation and interesting beer styles. Our beer festivals get in strong and hoppy IPAs, wheat beers, and anything else we can fit into the beer list. (Last festival we had 2 oxymoronic Black IPAs in (Hardknott and Windsor & Eton), they were both popular - Summer Wine Diablo IPA won the show though.) We also always host a popular foreign beer bar with both bottled and kegged beers. But at the end of the day bitters & best bitters take predominance... as that's what most folk at beer festivals want.<br /><br />We were keen to try getting some key-kegs in from Hardknott and London Brewers Alliance breweries this year. Unfortunately we don't really have the equipment or expertise to work with key kegs. We would put key-keg beer on alongside cask beer and sell it as real ale - we'd explain the format in the festival guide too, not try to hide it. It will happen --- it just takes some time, we're volunteers and most of us have busy full-time workloads that have nothing to do with beer. There is only so much we can do with a couple of hours a week.<br /><br />All the best,<br />Yvan<br /><br />*I hope to bring the Australian outback art of kangaroo ballsack hopping to the UK brewing scene one of these days.Yvan Sethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00010793966739437289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-32511873967762366092012-02-13T03:29:39.964-08:002012-02-13T03:29:39.964-08:00I had to explain what hop haze was at Belfast beer...I had to explain what hop haze was at Belfast beer of the festival judging as people thought it hadn't dropped bright.<br /><br />I agree with you Chris that clarity shouldn't be a judging criteria and Im not sure if it is an official CAMRA one or just invenetd by various beer festivals. I've seen people trying to get wheat beers to drop bright...<br /><br />I've not tried many unfined beers but the Moor ones I've tried I've preferred in their fined format. I don't want the taste and texture of yeast in my beer in most cases. I know other peopel may prefer different.beersiveknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13293913182389157112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-3855504864262147772012-02-13T02:55:06.700-08:002012-02-13T02:55:06.700-08:00I'm confused Chris...having been in that twitt...I'm confused Chris...having been in that twitter conversation to some extent yesterday, it was not obvious that the person arguing against unfined beer was a CAMRA man.<br /><br />Personally, I think it is all about education, we need to teach the beer drinking populace that a cloudy pint is not a bad pint. When I'm giving tastings to the cricket club regulars I often get "Oh it is not very clear" and have people refuse to even try it and this is when I have a light hop haze in the beer. A bit of explaining and most of they have come around but there are still those that refuse anything but the clearest beer.<br /><br />Attitudes will change but it may take time and there are some people who will never come around the the thought of unfined beer.dredpenguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00317014192310735266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-18699743422930681922012-02-13T01:07:32.481-08:002012-02-13T01:07:32.481-08:00"The production of unfined beer is about noth..."The production of unfined beer is about nothing other than choice, something it seems CAMRA are keen to stamp out. The whole 'craft' movement (I dislike the term, but it provides a useful reference point so I'll use it for this) is based around choice, education, passion, diversity and most importantly great beer in as many formats as possible to anyone who is interested...<br />...CAMRA advocate few if any of those things"<br /><br />As far as I can see the only one of those that CAMRA isn't concerned with is "formats" but choice, education, passion and diversity of styles are all central tenents of CAMRA. You only need to look at beer festival tutored tastings, the publishing arm and BEER magazine (to name buit a few) to see this is true.<br /><br /><br />"There is a new animal in our bars these days, an informed, intelligent new wave of interested beer drinker. A drinker who wants new experiences, wants to be amazed, educated, enthralled and engaged. "<br /><br />And like oit or not many of them are CAMRA members. Although the organisation may not currently reflect all of the views of all of the members (would it ever be able to?) 130 odd thousand people are CAMRA members because they see they DO bring benefit to them as drinkers.beersiveknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13293913182389157112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-45218563926029699932012-02-12T07:47:41.267-08:002012-02-12T07:47:41.267-08:00You're using the fact that you have a proven h...You're using the fact that you have a proven history of axe-grinding as evidence that you're right?<br /><br />I don't have to show that CAMRA aren't Luddites, it's up to you to show that your claim that they (as in the organisation, and not cherry-picked members) are is justified.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381685508862740084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-57179715958227912352012-02-12T07:42:57.707-08:002012-02-12T07:42:57.707-08:00In 2010 I wrote an article for a national newspape...In 2010 I wrote an article for a national newspaper suggesting CAMRA were in danger of becoming irrelevant (probably error strewn and poorly written but my editor was happy enough) so to accuse me, when you clearly know nothing about me, of using one or two tweets as the base for my argument shows you up. Equally your comment was just criticism and personal insult, with nothing to back any of it up. Thanks for the response though.Chris Mairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10701893504142498285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268865520565899806.post-601587440504514042012-02-12T06:46:36.847-08:002012-02-12T06:46:36.847-08:00That's a lot of words to justify a straw man.
...That's a lot of words to justify a straw man.<br /><br />You've taken two or three tweets by one CAMRA member and used them to create a self-serving tirade against the entire organisation.<br /><br />A poorly written, error-riddled tirade.<br /><br />Perhaps if you engaged in a conversation rather than running off to spew bile when someone dares to express a contrary opinion (all the while complaining that the targets of your ire don't allow freedom of choice -- the irony!) then the "luddites" would be more receptive.<br /><br />Try to be a grown up.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381685508862740084noreply@blogger.com